Talk:Killing Curse
Should the "disputed use" of Bellatrix kiling the fox be disputed if the flash of green light shows that it is definitely Avada Kedavra? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Admiral Carth Onasi (talk • ) }| }|}}. :Do we know that the only spell to produce a flash of green light is the Killing Curse? -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 03:43, 1 October 2007 (UTC) If we dont know that, then why does the page say, and I quote, "There was a flash of green light however, indicating clearly that it was used." If it is not clear that it was used, why does it say that? Anf if it is clear, why is it under disputed uses? Admiral Carth Onasi 20:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC) :Updated. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 23:01, 1 October 2007 (UTC) Thanks. Admiral Carth Onasi 19:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC) :No, the killing curse is not the only spell that produces a flash of green light. If you guys remember the 2nd book CoS, when Lockhart casted obliviate and it backfired it was described as a flash of green light as well (that kind of contradicts with the Deathly Hallows part 1 because it was kind of like a weak lumos in the beginning of the film but wikia takes the books first then the films) Question - Is it trivial or trivia to include the spider Crouch-As-Moody killed in class in front of Neville? Or did that only happen in the movie, not the book - I don't have it in front of me. Mafalda Hopkirk 20:52, 4 October 2007 (UTC) :It definitely happened in the book too, but what do you mean about trivia and trivial?Admiral Carth Onasi 20:59, 4 October 2007 (UTC) ::Hehhe i mean is it silly to add it, or is it good info? Mafalda Hopkirk 22:52, 4 October 2007 (UTC) :::"Trivial" is the word you're looking for: ::::triv·i·al (adjective) ::::#of very little importance or value; insignificant: Don't bother me with trivial matters. ::::Source :::But there are other situations like that (such as "A fox") that are already on the list, so go ahead and add it. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 23:03, 4 October 2007 (UTC) ::::Okie dokie =) Thanks. I'm really sorry, but I'm feeling pretty intimidated by the table with names and such. I'm positive I'll destroy it if I try to change it. Could someone please add that for me? Mafalda Hopkirk 23:10, 4 October 2007 (UTC) :::::The "Show preview" button is your friend. :) Pretty much with tables just copy the row above or below where you want to add it, paste it back in and then change the information - that's the easiest way to do it. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 23:20, 4 October 2007 (UTC) When Moody says that it's unlikely the spell would even give him a nosebleed when cast by the students.... I don't get that. The spell has no effects on the target besides instant death, so would a weak version have any effect at all, if a full version doesn't even cause any marks at all? Was it an exaggeration? Dorsha 05:19, 2 December 2008 (UTC) :I think Moody meant what Bellatrix later screams at Harry about the Unforgivable Curses -- you need to mean them. If you don't have the right intent or focus, they won't work. At all. Therefore, he was expressing doubt that any of his fourteen-year-old students could use the Killing Curse. I think he just said the "nosebleed" comment to illustrate how the curse is completely useless if you don't mean it. Oread 08:02, 2 December 2008 (UTC) ::That's what I was looking for, thanks. Dorsha 23:38, 2 December 2008 (UTC) In the hbp video game stupefy is green when opponents cast itFrosty Earth 11:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC) Pain echoes" of previous victims have asserted the death felt "quicker and easier than falling asleep". That´s wrong- This is what Sirius said. He isn´t a victim of Avada Kedavra.--Rodolphus 11:29, 28 March 2009 (UTC) The Movies In the movies, when Bellatrix uses it on Sirius, he didn't die instantly! :In the books, being hit with a Killing Curse causes immediate death, and it isn't stated which spell Bellatrix uses to kill Sirius. The books take precedence over the movies according to our Canon Policy. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 14:17, 9 May 2009 (UTC) In the Duel in the Minsitry it said "Voldemort sent a killing curse at Dumbledor causing a security guards desk to burst in flame" Now it does not say that it was Avada Kedavra. There are other killing curses such as the one Mrs. Weasley used on Belatrix Lestrange. LordAidan 11:21, 15 July 2009 (UTC) "Quicker and easier than falling asleep" How would Sirius know? He wasn't killed by Avada Kedavra. He was killed by being pushed through the veil. 01:47, 23 July 2009 (UTC) :He wasn't referring to Avada Kedavra specifically, just to dying. - Nick O'Demus 01:55, 23 July 2009 (UTC) ::Well, that would mean that drowning or burning alive would be quicker and easier than falling asleep. 01:56, 23 July 2009 (UTC) He was hit with Avada Kedavra, he may have died before he entered the veil --[[User:Bongo2009|'Bongo2009']] [[User_talk:Bongo2009|'Talk']] 12:31, 7 August 2009 (UTC) :Sirius was hit with Avada Kedavra only in the movie, in the book, it was simply a spell that pushed him beyond the veil, movies are only canon as long as they don't contradict what is said in the books. Omnibender - Talk - 20:04, 9 August 2009 (UTC) Lucius casting Avada Kedavra on Harry in 1993. I added this to attempts but I noticed afterwards that it was in the "Behind the Scenes" section, so I guess it was not in the book. Feel free to remove that row on the table if it is decided that the table will be "By the Books" 14:57, 24 July 2009 (UTC) :I removed it. Under our canon policy, things from the movies are considered canon, as long as they don't directly contradict the books. Lucius doesn't attempt to use Avada Kedavra on Harry in the book, but rather lunges at him, so this incident isn't considered canon. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 09:25, 26 July 2009 (UTC) ::Alright, I wasn't aware of that policy so I put it in and asked if that table should include items not seen in the books, or only somethings, as I saw that it was in the BTS (Behind the Scenes) section after I edited the table. 17:21, 26 July 2009 (UTC) :: :::But guys that doesn't make any sense. You see all 8 movies were supervised and monitored by J.K Rowling so every single detail in the film that was or was not in the book is probably from the creation of JK Rowling. She might have wanted to modify the story but she obviously can't go and change it in the book after it already came out so she probably thought of changing it in the film. The films are part of the Harry Potter universe. Anything that was in the film and was not in the book is still a part of the universe like for example the part in the deathly hallows part 1 where Harry dances with Hermione was not in the book but it should be counted as a part of the universe since J.K Rowling was the one that came up with it or agreed to put it. Don't you guys agree? —Firefox1095 16:09, April 3, 2011 (UTC) ::#I personally give this my vote Firefox1095 16:09, April 3, 2011 (UTC) Protection In the text is says: There is no known counter-curse or cure for it What about the Life sacrifice? Survivors Should we mention that two people have survived a Killing Curse that wasn't interrupted/didn't miss/etc.? Harry Potter: Once as a baby, again in GOF in Priori Incantatem, again over Little Whinging in DH, and once more in the final duel with Voldemort Voldemort: Thanks to his Horcruxes -- 11:35, 7 August 2009 (UTC) The life sacrafice isn't a counter-curse. Jayden Matthews 12:21, 7 August 2009 (UTC) * It's stated to be a counter-charm (CoS Riddle talking to Harry). --Stevehim 17:50, September 1, 2010 (UTC) It is mentioned, under "Fatality". Also, the casting over Little Whinging WAS interrupted. - Nick O'Demus 07:01, 14 August 2009 (UTC) It's said that only Harry Potter is the only person to have survived with "no ill effects." However, he did receive the cut on his forehead and had his scar from the event. I would personally consider that an ill effect, though not as bad as the original intention of the curse. Prov1413erbs 17:31, March 19, 2011 (UTC) : Harry only survived the kiling curse once when he was a baby because his mother died to protect him so she placed in the charm in his very skin that protects him from any evil until he turns 17. In GoF, he didn't survive it but just blocked it because he and Voldemort had wands from the same core so that would have happened to anyone. Like if two people have two wands with unicorn hair and both hairs in the wand are from the same unicorn, they will form priori incantatem because they can wound but not fatally harm one another. The Battle over Little Whinging is also the same. He didn't survive it but Harry's wand has already memorized from the GoF that Voldemort was the enemy (absorbing part of his soul during priori incantatem just like every wand absorbs part of it's owner's soul) so it just retaliated by itself because it detected that the person who wants to harm Harry is close by. When Harry surendered in the forest, he did not survive but he actually did die. His sould however stayed in Limbo because when Voldemort used Harry's blood in GoF as his own blood, he roped Harry's soul and attached it to the earth and he actually did not kill Harry's sould but his own soul fragement that was in him and so Harry's soul had the choice to either carry on and die forever to return to his body. The child-like form that Harry saw in the Limbo and Dumbledore said they could not help him was Voldemort himself but his soul was already too damaged because of the many times he killed people (each kill splits his soul kind of like Mitosis) and attaching 6 parts of those to horcruxes. Firefox1095 16:23, April 3, 2011 (UTC) No way! In the text it says:there is one known counter curse. marchilies. when used it will create a shield that will block you from the killing curse, Sectumsemphra. and other dark magic only dumbledor knows of it because dumbledor created it '' Where did this information come from? witch source? Because the killing curse is known to not have ANY counter spells. Without source, I don´t believe a word. :It was recently-added Fanon and has been removed. - Nick O'Demus 17:32, 20 August 2009 (UTC) Title I think the title of the article should be Avada Kedavra, as it's the name of the spell, not merely the incantation. The Killing Curse is just a nickname, same as the Cruciatus Curse, which is nicknamed the "Torture Curse". Here are some quotes. Jayden Matthews 09:32, December 12, 2009 (UTC) ::I agree. --ÈnŔîčö DC (Send me an Owl!) 15:22, December 12, 2009 (UTC) Light Colour The books describe the Killing Curses light colour to be GREEN, as books are the primary resource for this Wikia the article should identify the light as GREEN. Not CYAN, CYAN is the appearance of the Killing Curse in the film adaptions of GoF and HBP, PS and OoTP use a limey-shade of green instead. Therefore the films all contradict one another and as the second resource the books generalised GREEN colouring should be listed instead. [[User:Patr0nus|'Patr0nus ]] ([[User talk:Patr0nus| Expecto Patronum! ]]) 13:07, December 12, 2009 (UTC) ::Cyan is a shade of green. As the books do not contradict it, it is considered canon. I am planning an improvement drive of this article and have placeed an inuse tag on it, so please do not make changes to the article while the tage is in place. Also please do not shout. Jayden Matthews 13:13, December 12, 2009 (UTC) :::So what if Cyan is a shade of green? So is the Lime which was the colour used in PS, if the books state the light to be green then that is canon, not what the film says. And I wasn't 'shouting' I was bolding the key points to my post. Green is what this article should, and will have as light colour as the green covers what the book says and also is a generalised colouring for the three different colours that have appeared in the films! [[User:Patr0nus|'Patr0nus ']] ([[User talk:Patr0nus| Expecto Patronum! ]]) 13:33, December 12, 2009 (UTC) ::::If Rowling had described the curse as "a blinding flash of lime green light" then, yes, cyan would be non-canon. Because the exact shade is not specified in the books, however, the most recent film is considered canon according to policy. Also, using caps in a discussion is considered shouting. Jayden Matthews 13:43, December 12, 2009 (UTC) ::::::The films are canon unless the books directly contradict them. In this case there is no contradiction, as Rowling did not specify the exact shade of the curse. Jayce •Avada Kedavra• • • 14:05, December 12, 2009 (UTC) :::::::Guys you are forgetting something very important here. Rowling monitors every second of filming and editing for the film just to make sure that everything applies with and looks like whatever is/was in her imagination when she wrote the books or whatever she wants to modify in the story or anything else. The killing curse in GoF was a mixture between lime green and cyan and if that's not how Rowling wanted it, it would have never been in the films. Firefox1095 13:38, April 3, 2011 (UTC) Avada Kedavra Since this has been challenged so many times, I think we should have a vote whether this is "Avada Kedavra" or stay "Killing Curse"--[[User:Lord Voldemort killed the vampire James|''L.V.K.T.V.J.]] ([[User talk:Lord Voldemort killed the vampire James|''Send an owl!]]) 21:38, February 4, 2010 (UTC) I agree, it should be Avada Kedavra, the actual name, not the nickname. Also, the other two unforgivable curses are titled by their names, so wouldn't it be proper that this one be also? Theonlyhermione 02:39, March 10, 2010 (UTC)16:07, March 8, 2010 (UTC) I think that it should stay Killing Curse because what if they made the Cruciatus Curse just the Crucio Curse? Same thing goes for the Imperius Cuse. Dylanfrinkled 9:03, March 10, 2011 ET Quirrell In the PS book, there is the following line: "Quirrell raise his hand to perform a deadly curse." Additionally, he is seen conjuring deadly green flashes of light in the video game. (PC) So, I´d conclude that Qurrell had the ability to perform a wandless, non verbal Avada Kedavra. Do yo agree?--Rodolphus 18:15, February 18, 2010 (UTC) Bumping--Rodolphus 19:49, February 28, 2010 (UTC) On second thought, it´s also possible that he wanted to use the unidentified lethasl curse, isn´t it?--Rodolphus 10:15, March 25, 2010 (UTC) Dumbledore Can it really be said that Dumbledore died by the killing curse? If Malfoy hadn't disarmed him, it was said (or implied i can't remember which) that the elder wand would have passed with Dumbledore as no one would have defeated him for it's allegiance, because he was already dying and had arranged it with Snape beforehand. If the killing curse had been what killed Dumbledore then had Malfoy not dissarmed him before Snape got there, once Snape cast the killing curse wouldn't the elder wand have recognized Snape as it's new master? BachLynn23 23:49, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :I think you're mixing up two entirely different things: Dumbledore's death and the Elder Wand's allegiance. While his death had been planned (and thus, Snape would not gain mastership of the wand), Snape technically ''was the one to kill him by means of the Killing Curse. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 23:57, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::I get it, he was killed by Snape's killing curse, but because he was already dying, the elder wand wouldn't have recognized that as a good enough reason to switch allegiance's, because they had planned the whole thing, so Dumbledore wasn't going to put up a fight for it. I'm kinda annoyed with myself for not having gotten that sooner, just not awake today. Thanks for explaining :-) --BachLynn23 00:12, July 29, 2010 (UTC) Blocking I thought it could be blocked by another unforgivable curse. Actually only another killing curse. But anyway, I thought that they actually could be blocked somehow, such as two wands with the same core. Also, is it possible to invent a spell that could block it, or is it impossible? 23:49, December 6, 2010 (UTC) :No, it cannot be blocked. The only way that it happened was with Priori Incantatem. --JKoch (Owl Me!) 02:38, December 7, 2010 (UTC) Move This article needs to be moved to Avada Kedavra, the actuall name of the curse, and not the nickname. Read the following piece of text: Ah, said Moody, another slight smile twisting his lop-sided mouth. Yes, the last and worst. Avada Kedavra ... '''the killing curse'.. Note the lower case. The "killing" curse is a nickname. In all other instances it is refered to as the Avada Kedavra curse. Let's get it moved people. 11:09, December 8, 2010 (UTC) Though, every time I can remember the curse is referred to as ''the Avada Kedavra Curse is in informal exchanges. In Half-Blood Prince, this curse is indeed referred to as "the Killing Curse" (note the uppercase) in a more formal register than casual speech (a Daily Prophet article): -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 16:10, December 8, 2010 (UTC) References of Avada Kedavra outweigh those of the killing curse. Avada Kedavra is the official name of the curse. See the multiple references above. 16:21, December 8, 2010 (UTC) :Regardless of ammount of times it is referred as such, Avada Kedavra is never (as I can remember) formally given as the curse's actual name. See Stupefy, for instance. While it is referred to most often by its incantation, its proper vernacular name is Stunning Spell. The same thing goes for Rictusempra (which is the Tickling Charm), Reparo (the Mending Charm) and Avada Kedavra (the Killing Curse). -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 16:31, December 8, 2010 (UTC) So the Cruciatus Curse should be renamed the Torture Curse should it? No. Avada Kedavra is the official title of the curse. What do you judge as formal? The Daily Prophet is a direputable rag. 16:49, December 8, 2010 (UTC) :I wouldn't rename the Cruciatus Curse the Torture Curse, because "Cruciatus" is used in several instances where characters use formal speech (a casual style being the one used by characters within in-group friends and acquaintances; where ellipsis, slang and interruptions are common and where prior knowledge on the subject is assumed - formal style being the other way around), such as Dumbledore telling Harry about Neville's parents and by Umbridge when discussing "matters of Ministry security" in the OotP film. :The term "Avada Kedavra Curse" , on the other hand, is only used (that I know of, I should stress) in casual speech. The fact the Daily Prophet is not a reliable source for reported facts is irrelevant; on that particular passage, they are just saying Harry survived that curse when he was a baby and he know for a fact that did happen. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 17:12, December 8, 2010 (UTC) ::Wait, you consider Dumbledore's conversation with Harry about Neville's parents formal context? Then what about when Harry and Dumbledore are discussing the murder of the Riddles, in which Dumbledore refers to it as the Avada Kedavra curse? Furthermore, Avada Kedavra curse is used in Dumbledore's notes on the Tales of Beedle the Bard, when grouped with the Imperius, and Cruciatus Curses. 17:22, December 8, 2010 (UTC) :::Oh. You're right then. There's no question Dumbledore's notes should be taken in consideration as, after all, they are the most recent piece of canon. So, if no one has objections, I shall move the article to "Avada Kedavra". -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 17:31, December 8, 2010 (UTC) ::::Thank you muchly. I did point out that particular Dumbledore quote in one of the above sections. 17:36, December 8, 2010 (UTC) :::Sorry about that, I apparently hadn't noticed that. ;) -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 17:47, December 8, 2010 (UTC) Main image I'd like to propose a new main image, if I may be so bold. While the current image is from the last film, I feel that it's a bit ... underwhelming. I think an image that shows the actual effects of the curse as well as the green light would be more striking. I'll suggest some possibillities below, and if anyone else has any that they think might be suitable feel free to add them on. Jayden Matthews 16:31, December 21, 2010 (UTC) File:Avada Kedavra Curse.JPG File:VoldemortmurdersLily.JPG File:Avada Kedavra Curse - Spider.JPG File:Cedric goes for a spin.JPG :I wouldn't mind having Lily's death as main image. The image is visually appealing and, after all, depicts one of the most circumstantial uses of the Killing Curse in the series. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 16:36, December 21, 2010 (UTC) ::What I don't like about the VoldemortmurdersLily photo is that Lily looks as if she was being tortured (the killing curse kills without pain). My vote goes to the spider one. -- The Evening Prophet (Owl Post) 16:49, December 21, 2010 (UTC) :::That's true. Dumbledore's conversation with Snape establishes that Avada Kedavra dispatches it's victims painlessly. So Lily would not be screaming. Jayden Matthews 16:57, December 21, 2010 (UTC) ::::For all we know, she could be screaming in shock, as she was doing moments before her death (He could hear her screaming from the upper floor - DH chapter 17), and not in pain. Anyways, I would definitely prefer a picture of a human being killed. The spider picture may fail to impress the readers on the awful nature of the curse. Or maybe that's just me. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 19:24, December 21, 2010 (UTC) :::::Good point. I agree with you, the spider image can goe elsewhere in the article. Jayden Matthews 19:33, December 21, 2010 (UTC) ::::::: ::::: I vote for the spider one. The first photo of Cedric is after he is already dead and the 2nd ::::: Cedric photo is not very clear. The Lily one is a bit...er.....like you know looks a bit fake ::::: because she is screaming and acting like she is being tortured even though she told ::::: Harry in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows that it is painless. Firefox1095 13:33, April 3, 2011 (UTC) Victims i would like to add that some victims are not listed such as Bertha Jorkins, Barty Crouch Sr., Siruis Black, and Fred Weasley *Sirius didn't die of this, its not confirmed Barty did and Fred died of an explosion.--WarGrowlmon18 05:22, December 23, 2010 (UTC) *Sirius Black did not die from the killing curse but instead Bella cast a spell that pushed him into the archway which is like a one way ticket. You can go throught the archway but you can't come back because it is like a portal to death. *Fred Weasley didn't die of the killing curse but because of an explosion caused by a spell that resulted in the collapse of the part of the hogwarts castle that he and Percy were fighting side to side against the death eaters in. Bertha Jorkin's death was largely omitted and nothing was mentioned except that she was kidnapped or lost or whatever you want to call it and died. It is not known if it was the killing curse or not. Same goes for Bartemius Crouch Sr. All was known is that his son killed him and transfigured him into a bone then buried him. Firefox1095 All is well... 11:11, March 20, 2011 (UTC) :Sirius Black died from the killing curse. Bellatrix casted the spell on him in the Ministry of Magic. (During Order of the Phoenix) AznPride112 08:57, March 20, 2011 (UTC) ::Only in the movie.--WarGrowlmon18 15:09, March 20, 2011 (UTC) In the Ootp movie Sirius has two lives because: *Bellatrix clearly shouts "AVADA KEDAVRA" and it hits Sirius. Nothing happens *Then he dies from the veil See in the movie Sirius has two lives. User:Donut4 Creation Can someone source the creation section? It seems that none of the unforgivable curses have any soruce for the claim that they came from the early middle ages. 03:37, May 5, 2011 (UTC) : I recall reading in one of the books, not sure but probably the fourth, that they were infact created in the middle ages as an easier and quicker way to end duels fast. — Firefox1095 — 04:06, May 7, 2011 (UTC) ::I believe it was in Dumbledore's notes in The Tales of Beedle the Bard. I don't have my copy with me right now, so I can't cite the page, but I'll try to look it up later and add the reference. - Nick O'Demus 05:09, May 7, 2011 (UTC) ::: :::Thanks to Nick O'Demus, I went over my copy of the Tales of Beedle the Bard yesterday. Here is what I've found about the unforgivable curses: "The Cruciatus Curse, Imperius and Avada Kedavra were first classified as Unforgivable in 1717, with the stricest penalties attached to their use." —Page 86; definitions on bottom. — Firefox1095 — 11:36, May 7, 2011 (UTC)